Reference Profile Series: The Strategist Manager

Strategist extraordinaire Karen Shulman joins us to unravel the unique attributes of the Strategist reference profile through the science of The Predictive Index. Karen offers a fascinating glimpse into the minds of those who are wired for innovation, analysis, and a relentless drive for results.

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  • The Bosshole® Chronicles

    "Reference Profile Series: The Strategist Manager"

    Original Publish Date: 10/29/2024

    Hosts: John Broer & Karen Shulman

    John Broer: Welcome back to The Bosshole Chronicles. Everybody out there in The Bosshole Transformation Nation, this is your host, John Broer, actually co-host because we are being joined by none other than Karen Shulman. That's right, Sara is fully booked. She's got so much stuff going on and I invited Karen to come in and do this episode on one of our reference profiles from the Predictive Index, and specifically the Strategist, because that is Karen's reference profile and, as you will learn, the Strategist represents a very, very small percentage of the human population. But I thought what better way to fully explore and understand what it means to be a strategist manager, or even having a strategist report to you, than having a strategist join me on the program? So we're going to bring Karen in here shortly. Keep checking in for more of these reference profiles sort of scattered within our standard programming, but we're really glad to have you here. Make sure to also check out the show notes and if you don't know your reference profile, use the link in the show notes to find out. We'll send you your one-page reference profile description, but let's not wait anymore. 

    The Bosshole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode. Well, Karen Shulman, welcome back. It's so good to have you back on the program. 

    Karen Shulman: It is wonderful to be back. It's been a minute. 

    JB: It has been, it has been and a lot's been going on. We've all been super busy, as our listeners know, for the last, I guess the last several weeks. We've started on this journey of introducing everybody to the reference profiles from the Predictive Index from the perspective of being a manager and even if you have this reference profile on your team but everybody knows from my intro that on our team you are a strategist and I thought, oh my gosh, this would be great. Let's have Karen on. Not only is she a seasoned pro from being on the Bosshole Chronicles, but she's also a strategist. And I thought, if you don't mind, you can help enlighten everybody out there as we think about what does it mean to be a strategist as a manager, or even have a direct report? How does that sound to you? 

    KS: Well, I think it sounds great. At times, you may refer to me, as I refer to myself, which is a recovering strategist. 

    JB: Oh okay, how about a well-adapted strategist, as we all should be when it comes to adaptation. 

    That's right. Well, and let's not forget, though I mean and just so everybody knows the strategist is a very unique reference profile from the standpoint of when it comes to change readiness, you are one of the three reference profiles. The strategist is one of the three reference profiles that actually is really great at helping to facilitate and be a great catalyst for change. Whereas we have, you know, me as a captain, I tend to be a change champion. The majority of them nine reference profiles, are what we call change challengers. You're a part of that change catalyst group, so and thank goodness you're on our team at Real Good Ventures, Karen, because we would have wandered off somewhere really, really obscure and crazy, and you helped to ground us, so we appreciate that. 

    KS: I understand my role, so that's good. And it gives me something to do. 

    JB: It gives you something. Well, and everybody. This will come as no surprise that the clients with whom Karen works absolutely love and respect everything, as do we everything she brings to the table. So let's talk about that unique wiring of being a strategist. So, as we've done before, let me just give you a high-level definition. 

    A strategist is results-oriented, innovative and analytical, with a drive for change okay, and a natural drive for change, and we'll talk a little bit about that. And what I'll do is I'm going to just revisit the average drives. You know we talk about drives. There are factors that every human has. I'll talk about the drives, needs and behaviors and then, Karen, you can walk us through some of those signature work styles. But strategist on average. And, by the way, I'm going to give you the average breakdown of the four factors, but please go into the show notes and follow the link to find out your own reference profile. We'll send you your one-page description and at some point during this series you will be able to learn more about your specific reference profile. 

    But, on average, the highest factor for a strategist tends to be dominance, the drive to have influence on people and events, and then the extroversion drive tends to be on the lower side, maybe moderately low, which means that a strategist is naturally task-focused. The lowest factor tends to be that patience factor. Karen and I share that in common, which means that when we tackle something, we like to get going on it and get it done, and delays make us absolutely crazy. But that low patience, that low drive for consistency and stability means that we tend to work at a faster pace. And then, on average, the formality and this is where you and I differ the formality. You tend to have higher formality and that formality is the drive to conform to rules and structure, whereas I have a lower one. I like that flexibility and can be a little bit loose with rules, but we've learned how to work through that. 

    But when it comes to the needs generally in terms of strategists, they need an understanding of the big picture opportunities to work with facts. They need an understanding of the big picture opportunities to work with facts, variety and flexibility, time to develop expertise. Strategists would not necessarily like to be just thrown into something. They could do it, but they'd really prefer and have that need to master and perfect what you do, karen. Is this all sounding pretty consistent in terms of how you see yourself? 

    KS: Oh, absolutely, and I think it's one of the things that comes through. 

    At least for me as a strategist, it's one of the few profiles that has both high A and high D, coupled with a low C, so that we are people who have the ability to see the big picture and understand the details necessary to get there. And that can be a blessing and a curse, because we sometimes have a. We fail to understand why other people can't see all that, but they can't. So, yeah, this is yes everything you've described. I'd say that's me, except that I've adapted my very low C drive over the years. 

    JB: And again, the key word there is adapted. You don't change it, it's just that you figured that out. And I think one thing that in terms of your needs and how we work together and we've been working together for six, seven years now is that the opportunity to work with facts and I have a tendency to be a little bit loose with facts. I can be really comfortable with ambiguity and that doesn't really help, and I've learned that. You know, as we work together. When Karen and I work on a project, I want to make sure that I am providing a substantial or at least a suitable amount of detail or facts. And then I know that you will. Just because you can see the big picture and you have that ability to drive that, you will. You can just jump right into it. But a complete blank slate, while you can work with that it's, it's not preferable. 

    KS: I would say that's absolutely correct. 

    JB: So, when it comes to behaviors, strategists tend to be independent, reflective, intense and organized, and that's probably all of those have been a real attribute to real good ventures. Because I will be the first to say that there are a lot of programs that we offer, the structure of which and the order Karen has spoken into, to a great deal, and so those characteristics, those drives, needs, behaviors have been so beneficial. So, as a manager, when you think about those drives, needs and behaviors, and as you start to internalize and understand and create that self-awareness as a strategist manager, these are all really, really great things. So how does that like translate to work? So, Karen, would you just walk us through some of those signature work styles in terms of how that looks in the workplace? 

    KS: I will. I'll start off by talking about communication and as strategists because we have an extraversion drive, a B-drive that's on the low side we tend to be reserved and we tend to need a lot of time to think and reflect and go within ourselves for answers. When we speak and I will say especially when we're stressed we can certainly come across as authoritative. We know, like I said earlier in the podcast, we know where we want to go. We also understand what we need to do to get there and so that can come across as very authoritative. But it's because we have a, I think, a more complete picture in a lot of cases than other people might have and so we might come across as authoritative. 

    We're not great delegators. We'll delegate details to other people, but delegating authority not a strong suit for us. A little bit tight on delegation unless we learn how to do that better. Because of that high dominance drive, we do like to control things and make sure that if we have delegated something, that things are on the right track. So we will frequently check in with other people to see how they're doing. We are, when it comes to decision-making, we are pretty decisive. We like to get results. We are driven to get results and when it comes to taking action we're pretty self-motivated. Give us the opportunity to be creative. After we've had time to think about things and reflect, we can be fairly innovative and we will take risks, but we will make sure that we understand what could potentially go wrong. So we will be more calculated risk takers where we approach risk that way. 

    JB: Whereas those of us with wider A over D factor combinations, we're very comfortable sometimes saying if we make a mistake we'll just make another decision, and that actually can feel very uncomfortable for a strategist right. 

    KS: That's right. Yeah, If we're going to do something, we will have thought about probably the potential risks and we don't really like to take those leaps. We want to make sure that those are calculated leaps. Sometimes they make sense, but sometimes it is uncomfortable. Space for strateg projects client work. 

    JB: I’ve always found that to be a very healthy exchange because, as a captain and you are being a strategist collectively we make what is really referred to as a pathfinding team. We can figure out a really effective way to go forward, but each of us brings to that approach very unique perspectives, and being able to talk that out and you being able to say, well, well, John, let's tap the brakes for one second and think about this. I understand the risk you want to take, but here are a few components that we haven't addressed yet and it's like okay, that makes a lot of sense. The other thing that makes me think about this, simply because I hope you don't mind me sharing this, Karen. Karen happens to be really, really great pickleball player. 

    KS: That's an overstatement by a captain about my athletic abilities in pickleball. 

    JB: Okay, so compared to me, how does that sound? Compared to me, which is not saying much. Karen is a very capable pickleball player, but the thing is, is that the word that comes to mind is competitive? You like to win? I do. I mean that comes out, it out. It comes out obviously during activities and sports, and you know we've seen it on the pickleball court, which is fun, but also at work, and so that drive is very real and if there are opportunities to win or succeed that you perceive as being delayed, that can get very frustrating. 

    And then one last if you're a manager and you're a strategist, the one thing that Karen really focused on was delegation. Delegation is an important skill for all managers and supervisors to lead. It's easier for some others and it's harder for others. So those managers even for a captain, a over B, task-focused people that also maybe really need to balance that risk tend to want to hold on to that authority and that control, and that can really bury us if we don't learn how to delegate. So that's just one of those things. Go ahead, what were you going to say? 

    KS: Yeah, and when it came to delegation, when I was managing other people plus had my own workload, it got to the point I was not a good delegator. It got to the point where I had so much on my plate I had no choice but to learn how to delegate and I had to shift my mindset. The delegation was not me giving up. Talk about the competitive nature, me giving up and saying I can't do all this. The delegation actually had to shift it in my brain to say I am here to grow and develop the people that work for me. And once I did that it also became easier to delegate, because then it was oh, I'm giving something to somebody. They don't really know how to do it, but it will enhance their skillset. And so, out of necessity and shifting my mindset really helped me do that. I don't know if that's common for strategists. I suspect it is maybe common for some other profiles too. 

    JB: Well, it could be, but I mean, I think the biggest takeaway is that when you start to realize, look, we all talk about love, to talk about superpowers, but we all have traps, which we're going to talk about in just a second those traps can really hold us back. What you experienced is the adaptation to say I'm going to delegate this and give the responsibility to somebody else. This is also why having the data on those people is so critical, because you have an understanding of what their drives, needs and behaviors are and how they're going to receive something that's delegated, but it starts with that manager. That is a great insight, absolutely. Well, let's talk a little bit about the strengths and the common traps when it comes to strategists. I think this will come as no surprise based on what Karen has shared so far, but they really, as you said, karen, the ability to think big picture and anticipate problems. Strategists are really good at that, Able to deal with pressure and multiple priorities. That can also have a downside to it if you overcommit and try to do too many things. I think we both experienced that organized and thorough follow-up, and you just said you know that natural strength of having good follow-up is very beneficial. 

    When it comes to delegating, there are certain reference profiles that are very, very comfortable delegating authority and giving it away but there's no follow-up and then that can create a whole set of different issues and then, when it comes to common traps, may appear tough-minded and directive. Again, that is an interpretation, because you said your communication can be authoritative and to the point and if people don't know you they could say, wow, that was pretty harsh, that was pretty much to the point. Or tough-minded, but that can be a perception. To the point, or tough-minded, but that can be a perception. Be intolerant of delays and stagnant environments. Amen, I totally get that, and maybe seen as a perfectionist. How does that Okay, nobody sees this.

    KS: I’m laughing.

    JB: Karen's laughing. So, Karen, tell me why that strikes you, why that strikes you as amusing. 

    KS: I think, because I have a double whammy, because I am not only a strategist, but I am a strategist who is born under the sign of Virgo. So we are perfection. I'm a double perfectionist. 

    JB: OK. 

    KS: I really had to. I really had to work on that and, you know, one of the one of the lessons that I've learned is to remind myself that whatever's happening, it's just perfect the way that it is. Oh, okay, that's good. Well, when I can remember that, if I get stressed out, that's out the window. 

    JB: Side note. So right now this is being recorded in the fall of 2024. We are in the midst of this anticipated rollout of a whole new version of the PI software Predictive Index is coming out with a whole new version of it, and Karen has been instrumental in building out these office hours that we're doing. And I was talking to Hannah, who's another one of our teammates, and we were looking through an outline you were traveling and she goes wow, Karen is so thoughtful in terms of looking at the whole picture and that's where this perfectionistic type of drive comes from. But you know what, without it and that's also why you're in the I mean, the strategist is in the competing values, matrix and results and discipline. That really really does, if you think about how beneficial that is to a team. I mean, we've experienced all the time, but, as a manager, understanding those strengths, your superpower and potential traps, that kryptonite is really really essential. So, Karen, what's the best way for us to work with a strategist? We have a strategist on our team. What's the best way for us to work with them? What do you think? 

    KS: I do think it's kind of the way that we work things at Real Good Ventures. You give me a concept, or perhaps it's a task, and maybe it's clearly defined or maybe I need more information, and I ask a lot of questions and you allow me to do that. Once I'm clear on what it is that needs to be done and what I need to take care of, I need you to get out of my way and let me do the work and that's why this is a beautiful working relationship, because that's exactly what you do and that really works well for a strategist. Just make sure that we're clear and we know what we're doing and we know what we have to accomplish, and then do not micromanage, because micromanaging does not work for strategists at all. 

    JB: And rely on the fact, to your point, that when a strategist has a question, they'll come back and ask the question. You do not hesitate to do that, which is great. There are some reference profiles where micromanaging and I'm going to use that term loosely is actually warranted meaning, I'm not talking about babysitting, but there are people who really do value the repetitive and very consistent check-in, whereas you I mean I can check in with you, but we have our regular cadence where it's like, yeah, we'll talk through it, We'll go, we're good, and then we move on and we get, we come together as necessary. There's never this need for constant checking in and communication. Does that make sense? 

    KS: Yeah, it absolutely makes sense, because you know that once you hand it off to me, I've got it and unless I come back hand it off to me, I've got it. 

    JB: Exactly. 

    KS: Unless I come back to you and I say I'm not clear on this, I need some help with this. What do you think I should do with this? But otherwise, yeah, it makes total sense. 

    JB: Yep, here's another helpful hint. You just made me think of something. I'm not going to use any names. Karen built this really wonderfully comprehensive program for for a client and the client didn't do anything with it. And you were like I just handed you this amazing program and you're doing nothing with it when it comes to head, heart and briefcase. I think it also has to do with the way you work. You also put your heart and soul into it, and when it is undervalued or not utilized, that's a hard thing to take. 

    KS: You know, I think with a lot of profiles, not just the strategist, when you have a higher D, you put your heart and soul into your work. And then when somebody doesn't use it or they criticize it, it's almost like they're insulting you and you take it personally. And I don't think any of us mean to do that. But I think you hit the nail on the head. We put our heart and soul into our work. If we're going to go through all that effort to really help somebody and hand them a program and then they don't use it, that is mystifying to us and it's also maddening. And then we become more authoritative and I'm sure you saw that. 

    JB: And I think it was warranted, but anyway, but anyway. So, yes, so you're hearing a little bit of inside baseball from Karen and me. So let's talk a little bit. Let's shift gears if we can. So for managers, if you are a strategist, think about that in terms of the self-awareness, drives, needs, behaviors, your signature work style, strengths and potential traps. But what if we had a strategist on our team and they were a direct report? Let's talk a little bit about how to motivate and recognize, even providing direction and feedback. Karen, do you want to share a little bit of insight on that? 

    KS: Yeah, I think when it comes to I'll start with recognition comes to recognition. Strategists typically don't necessarily want public recognition we are much better with. Take us off to the side. Tell us what you need to tell us. Give us some recognition about the depth of our work, the depth of our understanding, how much time we spent to bring ourselves up to speed and be able to accomplish whatever it is that we're trying to accomplish, but not publicly. I would say Okay, and we've already talked about it, no-transcript, if they have any questions. 

    JB: When you talk about the frequency of check-ins and the cadence of check-ins. First of all, that's why we do behavioral analytics, because the reference profile, this information we've been providing in this series, will give you a really clear indication of generally what somebody needs. But sitting down with them and just having a conversation around that is actually a really healthy thing. Yeah, I mean, you may get somebody that says I'm good, they're very self-aware, I do not need a lot of check-ins, I will come back to you if I have questions. Need a lot of check-ins? I will come back to you if I have questions. And then there may be some people that are just lacking that self-awareness. But the data will help sort of guide you if you have this person on your team. And I think, based on what we've shared, I think it's really clear in terms of when you are delegating to a strategist. Just as Karen said, do not delegate work if it won't end in a tangible result. Give work and projects where something is real and tangible and that you could look at and see hey, here's what I created. And then analytical work and work that requires strong attention to detail and accuracy. Strategists are very comfortable with that and accuracy strategists are very comfortable with that. 

    And then, as far as coaching is concerned, I think this depends on your relationship with the individual. I know you know what what our data would suggest is that or what the what the reference profile information would suggest is that you keep your coaching conversations work oriented and free from office politics. I agree with that, but I want to be cautious that it we are still talking about people you know. I mean we have these. Everybody has lives outside of work and, depending on the level of that relationship or the rapport, checking in with them on a personal level I don't think is a bad thing, but the office politics crap. I would actually say stay away from that with everybody. Does that make sense? 

    KS: It does. You know, when I was a younger strategist I did not want to have anything but work conversations with people at work. I think I've I've grown over the years in. You know, maybe depending on the age of your strategist that you might be supervising, or again, your relationship that will dictate that. I found it funny when I first started working with PI when I saw the report that said keep me free from office politics, I started laughing because I didn't understand where that came from. I just knew I really strongly, strongly disliked office politics in any fashion. 

    JB: Yeah, and so it was really kind of hardwired into who you are. I think this is really interesting. One of the prompts we have is ask them what is at risk if they are acting without all of the information, and just acknowledge the fact that you may be giving or delegating an assignment to a strategist without all of the detail and acknowledging that and saying to what degree does this present a problem because you don't have all the details yet, and just have a conversation around that and then finally ask how their work can help increase their expertise or knowledge and how they can share that with others on the team. 

    I think, Karen, this is one of the things that I've found to be so great about who you are and how you're wired. You're just better at what they do. There's a real. I want to say that that's a gift, but I also know it's hardwired into who you are. So if you have a strategist on your team, realize that their capacity to push that knowledge or share that knowledge and equip others beyond just what they're doing actually is a really strong trait. Beyond just what they're doing actually is a really strong trait, and I mean, I've got, I have had years of seeing you do that with all kinds of people, if that makes sense. 

    KS: It absolutely makes sense and I think not to be lost in all of that is you have to give the strategist time to acquire the new skills and acquire the knowledge. That's really, really important, because they like to be kind of experts at what they're doing in order for them to feel comfortable to share knowledge with other people. They want to know what they're talking about. 

    JB: Yeah, for sure. So, Karen, since we have a strategist here, anything else we need to know anything else in terms of helping our managers, our potential strategist managers, stay out of the boss hole zone. Any other advice that you could share? 

    KS: One thing, and I think it has to do with a strategist getting into a lot of analytical work understand that that's part of the wiring, that we're going to analyze and analyze, and analyze and it may not appear. It may appear that they're getting stuck, but it is part of the process for them to get to the point where they do enough analysis and then they say, no, I got it, now I can move forward. Be a little patient, because all that analysis is helpful for a strategist to feel comfortable in knowing what the heck they're doing and knowing what they're talking about. 

    JB: Excellent advice. That is great, and I would say also for the other reference profiles that may be very, very different, very different. I mean, like, if we think about the strategist being in the group with results and discipline, the opposite of that is going to be the teamwork and employee experience, cultivating sort of reference profiles promoter and collaborator. They can complement each other, but if you don't know this about one another, it can be exceedingly frustrating, wouldn't you agree? 

    KS: No, for sure. I mean a strategist is going to think task all the time. That's number one and the teamwork and employee experience. Folks are going to be thinking. People and the two sides will wonder why can't you think about the task that has to be done? If I'm a strategist, folks in the other category are going to think why do you never think about the people? It's not that a strategist doesn't think about the people, but task first, task first. 

    JB: Yep, that is a great point. Well, Karen, thank you so much for this and, by the way, I just want to let everybody know and remind you go into the show notes If you want to know what your reference profile is. Click on the link. Take the assessment takes less than 10 minutes. We'll send you your one-page reference profile information and you can build that self-awareness. And not only have I realized over the years of working with Karen what a rare and wonderful person she is, but also the strategist is the second rarest reference profile in the human population. It's just over two and a half percent. The one that represents the fewest, is the second rarest reference profile in the human population. It's just over two and a half percent. The one that represents the fewest is the analyzer, and we'll get to that eventually. But if you think, oh, I want to have a strategist on my team, make sure you're being really thoughtful and using objective data when you're looking for them, because they are harder to find. So you're like that rare gem. How does that sound? 

    KS: I like it and I think that's a great place to end. Yeah, right. 

    JB: Perfect, it's perfect. Well, Karen, thanks again. This was great, and we'll make sure you're back before too long. How does that sound? 

    KS: It sounds wonderful. Enjoyed it as always, John, thanks. 

    JB: All right, everybody, thanks for being here and we'll see you next time on the Bosshole Chronicles. Thanks very much for checking out this episode of the Bosshole Chronicles. It was so good to have you here, and if you have your own Bosshole story that you want to share with the Bosshole Transformation Nation, just reach out. You can email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles.com. Again, mystory@thebossholechronicles.com.We'll see you next time. 

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