Reference Profile Series: The Persuader Manager
Dive into the fascinating world of the Persuader manager with John Broer and Karen Shulman as they unpack this dynamic Predictive Index Reference Profile. Persuaders – those risk-taking, socially poised team builders – bring a unique energy to leadership roles that can transform organizational culture when properly understood and leveraged.
Click here for a short video about the Persuader
Click here to get your very own Reference Profile
-
The Bosshole® Chronicles
"Reference Profile Series: The Artisan Manager"
Original Publish Date: 4/1/2025
Hosts: John Broer & Karen Shulman
John Broer: Welcome back to all of our good friends out there in The Bosshole Transformation Nation. This is your co-host, John Broer, and it's good to have you here on this installment of The Bosshole Chronicles, because we're going to continue this week with our Predictive Index Reference Profile Series, and it is this series where we look at all 17 of the reference profiles and looking at it from the perspective of a manager, and this week we're going to be talking about the persuader manager. Now we also talk about, well, what happens if you have this person on your team? How do you manage, how do you coach, how do you develop this person? But we're going to move on with the persuader, and joining me this week is Karen Shulman, a familiar voice to all of our friends out there in the Bosshole Transformation Nation. She's going to join me in just a moment to talk about the Persuader reference profile.
Before we do that, we just want to express our sincere appreciation to all of our listeners out there. Your feedback, your input is just great. I know you are sharing the podcast with other people. We continue to ask you to do that because I think we're making a real difference out there. At any time, go into the show notes and provide your feedback, because it is very valuable to us. We appreciate you. Now let's learn about that reference profile for the Persuader.
The Bosshole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode. Hey, Karen, welcome back. How you doing.
Karen Shulman: I’m good, John, how are you, and thanks for having me back.
JB: Of course, of course. Well, everybody out there in The Bosshole Transformation Nation I know they appreciate your insights and you're most recently sharing your insights about the strategist reference profile which is you. So I actually kind of put you under the microscope to look at your own reference profile, which probably wasn't fair, but I really appreciate that. Today we're going to be talking about the persuader reference profile and we have our own persuader who is near and dear to our hearts at Real Good Ventures, and that, of course, is Sara, and I thought let's just have this and then Sara can check in on it and see if we got it right. But she's pretty self-aware and I think this is going to be just simply a reinforcement of that. So, that said, Karen, would you give us the overall definition or characteristics of a persuader?
KS: A persuader is a risk-taking, socially poised and motivating team builder. From a needs perspective, we're really looking at somebody who needs a lot of independence. They need opportunities to interact with other people. They need a lot of variety and they deal well with change and they really really need freedom from rigid structure. Behaviorally, they are going to show up as self-confident. They're going to also be quite persuasive. They are stimulating conversationalists. They are very fast-paced and they are also quite informal and spontaneous.
JB: Yep, well, okay, so great. You know, as our listeners know, when we look at the reference profiles we look at drives, needs, behaviors, and Karen has shared. Is that what are the felt needs generally of a persuader and what are the likely behaviors we may see from a persuader? Well, the origin of this all comes from their drives. So if you were to look at an average pattern of a persuader, well, the highest drive tends to be extroversion, the drive for social interaction with other people, and then followed by the next highest drive, which would be dominance, the drive to exert influence on people and events. That creates what we call, in the world of PI, a B over A factor combination, a people-focused orientation of those two particular factors. But then, when you go to the left side, and for those of you that have your own reference profiles, your own data, you know what I'm talking about. There's a midpoint. We have high factors, we have low factors. On the low side for the persuader generally, the lowest is going to be the patience factor and the patience is the drive for consistency and steadiness. I like to call it the pace factor. So in this case, to your point, karen, when it's low, fast pace, let's move, and then slightly higher on the scale, but still on the low side, left side of the pattern, is the formality, which is the drive for rules, the need for accuracy and rules and consistency.
Now, Sara would say that her, she has a, her formality is a little bit trailing. There are different types of persuader patterns. Remember, what I'm describing is the average pattern. So if you take the assessment and yours doesn't look just like that, that's okay, because Sara's formality is actually a little bit trailing, almost situational to her. Her C factor, her patience factor and, as we like to say, Sara is maverick adjacent. So drives needs behaviors. We understand what the persuader is. So, Karen, would you walk us through the signature work styles of a persuader? These are things like how they communicate, how they delegate, how they make decisions and how they deal with action and risk.
KS: From a communication standpoint and remember this because the extroversion is probably going to be the highest of all the drives in an average persuader. They're going to be empathetic, they're going to be persuasive and they're really good sellers. They have a very strong selling style. They tend to be very gregarious, they tend to be quite extroverted. I think we see that in our dear Sara. From a delegation standpoint, they actually have the ability to delegate both authority and details. And again, I think a lot of that probably comes from the low formality drive where they, you know, too much structure, too much confinement. Let's do it free, let's do it, let's get everybody involved.
JB: Yeah, and I think that's key, getting people involved, whereas if with somebody with a higher dominance, more A over B or you know, task focus, that's you, that's me to a degree we can delegate details, but giving up authority and control, that's difficult. For us. With a persuader, it's like no, no, no, I want to share in this, and so that social connection influences it. Okay, great, okay, what's next?
KS: Yeah, from a decision-making standpoint, they are really very confident decision-makers and, as we've discussed again, there's some social interaction in here too, because they know that they need to work through people and with people to solve the problems that face them Right From an action and risk standpoint. They tend to be venturesome risk takers. They are often undaunted by risk. Let's see what happens, we'll go for it. If something goes wrong, we'll fix it. We'll fix it.
JB: Yeah, damn the torpedoes, we'll just come up with another decision. That's right.
KS: That's right, and they have a very strong initiative, very proactive.
JB: Yeah, as people are listening, as they're thinking wow, I think that sounds like me. You can confirm this. Go into our show notes and there's a link to complete the PI behavioral assessment and we'll send you your one-page description of your reference profile. One of the things that we always like to remind people is that the intensity of these characteristics has everything to do with the width of your pattern. So when you look at your PI data, you're going to get a pattern and that pattern. Some patterns are very narrow, more moderated, some are more wide and then some are extremely wide. So the wider those get, all of these characteristics become more intense and they'll show up in varying degrees. Thank you for that, Karen.
So let's talk a little bit about the strengths and the common traps of what persuaders face. So when it comes to their strengths and we like to call them these, their superpowers they are very good at driving change and challenging the status quo, hearing questions like well, why do we have to do it that way? We've done it that way, you know, let's try something new, let's try something different. To do it that way, we've done it that way. Let's try something new, let's try something different. As I think you've heard from Karen, they have motivating and stimulating communication. It's very easy to get swept up in the excitement when you've got a persuader that is passionate about something, focused on something and wants to talk about it and is very I don't want to use the word persuasive, but say influential, if you will, in terms of communicating that and then proactive and results-oriented. Moving forward. Let's make sure that we are constantly keeping our eyes forward and we're going to move in that direction. Now, those are all wonderful characteristics that are inherent in a persuader.
At the same time, we talk about potential caution areas or traps, common traps or kryptonite, as I like to say, sometimes and this is absolutely influenced by how high that extroversion is may appear talkative or superficial, and I have to say that this happens to me too. Sometimes we talk more as a captain, persuaders, promoters I think this can happen to collaborators too, those with a really high extroversion. We tend to talk more than we listen, and that can seem superficial, may provide limited follow-up or attention to detail, and I think, as a persuader manager, I think this is a really important takeaway While we may feel, while persuader managers may, you know, marshal people together and say let's all work on this together and let's get going and you do this and you do this and you do this and we're assigning different responsibilities. If we're not careful we may not have that follow-up. So persuader managers need to think about not changing. We, as we say, people don't change, circumstances change. What they need to do is adapt and come up with some sort of tool or some sort of system to be able to follow up.
And then one other potential trap is sometimes persuaders seem a bit too familiar or uninhibited. If you are dealing with somebody who has a high degree of formality and, I would say, low degree of extroversion, somebody who tends to be more formal in nature and that would be Karen that would be a strategist. As an example, familiarity builds over time. Is that, would you say, that mean we've known each other for years and I know you love people and you connect with people. It just there's a period of time where you're sort of kind of assessing who they are, how we're going to connect. Totally different for a persuader no-transcript. She knows people everywhere, so that that connection is so powerful. And at the same time you know persuaders just need to be aware of that and make sure that the connection to people doesn't come off as being somewhat overly informal and uninhibited. I hope that makes sense, yeah.
KS: It does and I'm going to. I'll add something to that because.
I think it has to do with the casual and uninhibited and also the superficial aspect that could be a common trap. When I would do readbacks with persuaders and I would have them read you know what are your common traps and I, you know, I would ask them how does this land with you? Do you see yourself as superficial sometimes? And I had one person say to me you know, I think that that's probably true and I think that comes from the fact that I am often really, really optimistic and I think people perceive that my optimism is a way of being superficial and I thought, wow, that was really interesting because I wanted to get an understanding of how that landed with somebody that was a persuader. That's what that person told me and I think that that's probably pretty on target. That's what that person told me and I think that that's probably pretty on target.
JB: That's great insight. Also shows a lot of self-awareness, because I could see like, for example, having a persuader manager, I mean getting everybody excited and you're going to do great and everything's going to be fine. I also know that there probably is a time where we have to be and, as somebody with higher extroversion also just look at reality with sober judgment and say you know what things are not good and we have to sort of slow things down and have a reality check. That's a really interesting perspective on optimism and I love optimism, but there's also realism and huh, that's a great point, Karen. Thank you for that one.Thank you for Karen one. Okay, so, karen. Um, let's say we have a, a manager who is a persuader. Um, what's a good way to work with them? What's the best way to leverage those characteristics that we've been talking about?
KS: The level of interaction with the persuader will work well for them. Again, tailoring to that high extro in situations where they have to do a lot of routine and repetitive things, it's not a really great fit for them. I'm not saying they can't do it, but it would probably be uncomfortable, probably be kind of draggy for them. So, lots of variety and give them independence. Play to their high dominance drive. Give them independence, independence, play to theirindependence. . They're really ambitious folks. So as much independence as you can give them, probably the best.
JB: Yeah, I remember a story that our persuader, Sara, shared with me early on when we met and that she had a position at one point where she was given a lot of autonomy, a lot of freedom, independence to go do stuff, which was great, and then her manager left and a new manager came in who really clamped down on that and made her world very small, which just did not work. It was unfortunate, but that happens, and this is where organizations need to be extraordinary, not just with one reference profile. All the reference profiles. Understand who's around you and who's on your team and how one change on that team, especially a manager, can change the whole dynamic. And it's not good, bad, right or wrong. It's just a reality and we can use this objective data to more effectively understand how to navigate. It's too bad because that second manager probably didn't realize what a powerhouse they had in Sara and it just kind of squandered it. But that was to our benefit because she left there and came to work with us. We're a manager not necessarily a persuader manager, but we've got a persuader on our team.
Let me share a few things about motivation and recognition for a persuader. They love opportunities for advancement. I would say that opportunities for advancement don't necessitate movement into management. We've talked a lot about that on the Bosshole Chronicles. If people want to get into management, if they have a propensity, if they have a desire and a passion to help other people grow, fantastic, fantastic.
But if that's the only way to progress in an organization, that's not a good reason to get into management. But there can be, as an individual contributor, opportunities for advancement. Allow them to show their ability to lead and motivate so they can lift the spirit of a team very quickly and can tap into that and also make sure that you are providing social and status recognition for leadership skills and results. I think you shared in the episode about the strategist, Karen, that your preference is hey, if you're going to give me kudos, if you're going to give me recognition, one-on-one is preferable. I'm good with that. I don't need a broad recognition persuader. Would appreciate both, really appreciate more of the open recognition if that makes sense, I think that's right on target.
So how do we? What about like direction? How do we give them feedback, direction and even delegation?
KS: You know, when you're giving them feedback, it's really helpful with a persuader to give it to them in terms of that helps them understand that that can help them achieve those goals. Give them direction at a high level. Don't bombard with a whole bunch of details because, again, they're not really into details, they're more big picture oriented. And, do you know, probably give them direction in an informal way, not terribly formal and then make the feedback about performance on a work task than how others might have perceived it, because they might be a little bit sensitive on the people related things they don't want. You know, their reputation in others' eyes is a pretty important thing.
JB: Good point.
KS: Delegating work to a persuader that contains a lot of details is probably not going to be floating their boat. So delegate work, not detailed, not repetitive, not isolated. Don't keep them in an office in a cubbyhole. That won't work for them. But when you do delegate work to them, allow them to be maybe a team leader. Again, tapping into the social and people aspect and working through and with people is a helpful approach, awesome.
JB: So then, if you are coaching a persuader and this is all about helping managers, supervisors, be more effective in terms of coaching and developing people when it comes to persuaders, you really want to lean into those interpersonal skills, so it may be communicating and building support around specific projects or ideas or initiatives, whatever that may be. That's one of their superpowers and they're awfully good at it. I've mentioned this before because, as a captain, I am not a good active listener. My listening skills, my active listening skills are things I've been working on my entire career. Same with persuaders Give them guidance about when to learn to stop talking and start listening actively.
I'm only using myself as an example, because I can be very good at making eye contact with somebody and nodding and looking like I'm listening, and then they'll be done speaking and it's like what did you say? I'm sorry, I wasn't even paying attention. I've got something else percolating in my mind. So active listening, that's really important for a persuader. And then, finally, give them examples of situations where they may have come across as a bit too informal and too casual and it might lead to the perception of insincerity or not being genuine perception of insincerity or not being genuine.
And I would also say and actually our persuader, Sara, is so good at this because she sort of leads our initiative on EQ, emotional intelligence and that aspect of our practice Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. And I think that's the sort of thing where, if you are coaching a persuader and it calls into question the aspects of how they connect with other people, there's going to be a degree of sensitivity there, that is, it's pretty raw and you just want to be very transparent but also kind and genuine, because that will be. While it may hurt a little bit or may feel a bit ouchy to use another one of Sara's words I think it'll resonate and if they know it's coming from a place of sincerity, coaching from a place of sincerity and care, then it will be received better.
KS: Yeah, I think that point can't be stated enough. The need for social acceptance is quite strong in a persuader. The need for social acceptance is quite strong in a persuader, and so if you're providing coaching, it has to be done in a way where they know that you really care about them, you like them, you want them to succeed and if it comes from that type of an angle, that will go over much, much better.
JB: And you know you make me think, Karen, that let's say a persuader manager. And you know you make me think, Karen, that let's say a persuader manager. You know there is a desire to connect and talk to and communicate with your direct reports. You may have direct reports on your team that have lower extroversion and who just want to do their work, don't really require necessarily a lot of connection and you may feel like, oh my gosh, something's wrong. They don't want to talk, it's like no, no, no, look at the data. It will inform that and it will give you some guidance. Conversely, if you're a manager that has low extroversion and you have a direct report that really needs that face-to-face time, that's an adaptation the manager has to make. So everything we talk about during these episodes is about self-awareness and adaptation, which is not a bad thing, but it does take energy and it really requires being thoughtful.
KS; Great episodes, any closing comments about our persuader managers freedom to use their strengths and their superpowers and let them work through people, let them work fast, give them lots of variety and help them understand the big picture so that they can help achieve the performance that you would like.
JB: Awesome, alrighty. Well, everybody, keep checking back. Look into the show notes. You're going to see information about the. There's a video in there that we are including the new videos for all of the reference profiles when they publish. There is the link. If you want to get your own reference profile, please do that. But, Karen, once again, thanks very much and we will see you all next time on the Bosshole Chronicles. Thanks very much for checking out this episode of the Bosshole Chronicles. It was so good to have you here, and if you have your own Bosshole story that you want to share with the BossholeTransformation Nation, just reach out. You can email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles.com. Again, mystory@thebossholechroniclescom. We'll see you next time.
-