Dorrie Dils - Managing Me First
Navigating the high-stakes world of organ donation requires a leader with not only a strong backbone but a heart full of passion; Dorrie Dils is that leader. Her ascent from the front lines of critical care nursing to the helm of Gift of Life Michigan is a story of tenacity, vision, and unyielding dedication to a life-saving mission and avoiding The Bosshole® Zone.
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The Bosshole® Chronicles
“Dorrie Dils - Managing Me First ”
Original Publish Date: 4/23/2024.
Hosts: John Broer, Sara Best
John Broer: Well, hey there Sara. How are you doing today?
Sara Best: John, I'm so good. How about you? How are you doing?
JB: I'm real good and we are real good because I understand you've lined up a really remarkable guest for us.
SB: As always, we're so blessed by these amazing people. This actually is a unique experience. It's one of our clients and it's the CEO of- President and CEO of Gift of Life Michigan. Her name is Dorrie Dils. She's been at the helm of the Michigan OPO, or Organ Procurement Operation, since 2016. But you know she's here today to share her personal insights and I get to kind of qualify firsthand that she is an effective leader. You know we started this podcast, John, because we encounter a lot of people who aren't, and Dorrie walks the talk. You know she lives it out, she cultivates and develops the people around her and I think people are going to really love to hear her bits and pieces to take Bosshole prevention.
JB: Well, let's jump in. How does that sound?
SB: Sounds good, let's go.
JB: The Bosshole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode.
SB: Hey Dorrie, welcome to the Bosshole Chronicles. It's so good to have you.
Dorrie Dils: Thank you for having me.
SB: Tell our listeners, the Bosshole Transformation Nation, a little bit about you and your journey. You've been a leader for a long time, but take us back in brief to the beginning.
DD: My background is actually in critical care nursing. I went to school thinking that nursing was my path, and my education path was not exactly straight. I started out in a community college and then went and got my bachelor's degree and my master's degree and so, but when I was a nurse, I pretty quickly realized that bedside nursing was not going to be my long game. You know, I enjoyed taking care of patients, but I really felt like I had other things to contribute and things that interested me beyond direct patient care. And so in the early 90s I had a chance to move into the organ donation field and I went there as a clinician and still doing patient care, but in the scope of organ and tissue donation.
And I was in a fairly small organization where I had the opportunity, as the organization grew, to move into a management role and then a director role and then my last position there I was a chief clinical officer, so I oversaw all the clinical operations. And then in 2016, I had the opportunity to move to Michigan and I became the president and CEO of the Michigan donor program, which is a very- one of the largest in the country, I think we're the 11th largest and it's just been a really invigorating, exciting opportunity to lead such a large organization and obviously my dedication to organ and tissue donation is definitely strong and I I've enjoyed this field very much, but it's certainly a challenging field to work in, for sure.
SB: Well, I have to go back to the idea of you providing patient care. I know a little bit about your profile, your Predictive Index profile. You have high extroversion, you're connected to people, you're empathic, but you're also built for building things and seeing the bigger picture, and maybe that's what you meant by. I just knew there was more to contribute, like you were meant to be up and over things and helping to move things forward. Does that fit?
DD: Yeah definitely I mean my nursing experience. I was in a level one trauma center that had really complicated patient and family situations and some days felt like banging your head against the wall because it was those situations kept coming through the door. They were not all that different and they the outcomes were often not good, and, and actually during my time there I had a manager that gave me an opportunity to serve on a quality performance improvement committee and it was it was participating in that process that sort of opened my eyes to more the more administrative work that happens to make healthcare run, and and I really found that interesting and that that was sort of my segue to you know, there's more than just and not that. I mean I love all the nurses in my life and I admire my friends and colleagues who've done it for 30, 40 years and and it's an incredibly rewarding profession. But for me I thought that you know, I had opportunities to solve problems in a bigger way and that's what really excited me.
SB: Sounds like a maverick to me. Let her go, let her at it, but as a leader and you've shared this with me that you've learned some really powerful things and really deployed these yourself in your own leadership style. So it's really important, I think, for our listeners to hear you know what you've learned and how you utilize this stuff to be a good leader.
DD: Yeah, I mean certainly I never went to school thinking that I would be talking to Congress about legislation and talking to congressional members in Michigan and Washington D.C. or working on national donation and transplantation or access to transplantation issues. Like my 20-something self could have never imagined that I would be doing that work, but that's where our work has really focused over the last year, several years.
It's become a federal initiative that has raised the interest of Congress and the White House, and so making sure that and of course I am a maverick, so I want a seat at the table and I want to be able to help influence how those decisions are made and making sure that we keep in mind, you know, there are donor families behind these organs, there are patients who desperately need organ transplants and we can't forget at at its core, what donation is about, and and that's that's been really exciting.
JB: Well, Dorrie, I would have to imagine that, as these opportunities presented themselves, you just were drawn to them. As you said, when you had a chance to be on a committee or working with that group, it's like, "oh my gosh, I get to have an impact, I get to put my thumbprint on something, and that's really consistent with who you are. Print on something and that's really consistent with who you are, because I can even tell by just this conversation, this work. You get you light up when you start to talk about the chance to do this work and have an impact, and some people would say, oh, I would never want to do that and that's, that's okay. That's why we talk about job fit and fulfillment, so that's just so cool to see.
DD: Yeah, you know it's funny. There's a video that I've watched recently about women who, you know, have gotten far in their careers and high up perhaps. And the joke is, you know, the days that we are, the difficult days were like maybe I, Girl bossed too hard, you know, maybe I should dial that back a little bit. But the truth is like it's not it for me.
I wasn't like I set out, like I plan to be a CEO like that was never on the agenda, but I was always looking for the next opportunity and and you know, and it's how I've naturally progressed, but making sure that that, should the opportunities present that I was fully prepared to walk through the door and, and, but on the difficult days I'm like, yeah, maybe I, I would have preferred to not Girl bossed so hard.
SB: Oh, and you've shared some insight with us prior to our conversation today, that you know there are a lot of things that have influenced your style, your leadership. I think they're really valuable. We want you to share them with our listeners, starting with, I think, what you've always touted as most important, which is self-awareness. Starting with you.
DD: Yeah, yeah, I think you know we had an opportunity as a leadership team a couple of weeks ago to do some work with you, Sara, and we were talking about just challenges that we've overcome. And I've been thinking a lot about the leaders that I've worked with or worked for over the last 30 plus years and I, I firmly do believe that my great bosses and my more challenging bosses contributed to who I am today and what kind of leader I want to be, and I think those are, you know, understanding what brings people to to leadership and understanding what tools they came with and maybe where they were struggling. It's insightful to understand that perspective for sure.
SB: Wow, and I think you've made it your business to do more than just try to understand it. You've appreciated that leaders, when they were at their best, they certainly taught and helped you, but even the ones who at times were not their very best and they were very difficult and even some would say harmful, you took away from that gosh. I really don't know what that person is experiencing, I don't know what tools they've been given, and to just understand that there's a lot. That's one thing I took away when you shared that with the leadership team is wow, it's not just about me and what you're doing to me, boss, it's about wow, you have a lot on your plate, boss. There's a lot you're working against and for, and I know this can't be easy. Doesn't necessarily mean it's okay to do what you do, but I appreciate it and understand and give you some space to be who you need to be.
DD: Yeah, you know, to be fair, when I was in the moment, particularly in my mid to late twenties and early thirties, I wasn't feeling that way at all.
JB: That's fair, that's fair.
DD: Yeah, and contemplating you know, is this the right place for me? Because this is lunacy. But over time I've really grown to appreciate how difficult leadership is and you know, I think I've spent a lot of time becoming self-aware so that I am not in those positions to act out in that way. Yeah, yeah, which I think you know, in the 80s and 90s at least, the leaders that I experienced that was not, that was not part of their repertoire. You know they were, they were in and actually, Sara, you and I've talked about this with our Predictive index work that you know we want to set people up for success and some of the leaders I've worked for, I feel like no one considered that. And some of the leaders I've worked for, I feel like no one considered that.
You know they just they were good at the job that they were doing, so, hey, let's put this person in this position and wish for the best, and it's not like they were given any training or tools or nothing like what we have today to make sure that people are successful.
SB: I never thought that any of my bosses came to work wanting to yell at people or be angry or to frost.
DD: The entire office and everybody knew look out, they're upset today. But it was the circumstances around them that created that and their inability to manage it.
DD: I do have such empathy now for what it's like to be put in that position and I hope the leaders that work for me we provide those skills and opportunities for them to be successful, because I want them to be successful, obviously, but I also don't want them to suffer, and I've seen some leaders who have really, really been challenged.
JB: If I may, there's so much in that just that last sentence or two of yours, Dorrie. There's so much there because it's very common to take somebody who's a great individual contributor and elevate them into management without any training or preparation. I love what you, before we hit record, I loved what you said is at the beginning of the day, I really need to think about managing me around self-awareness before I can really be an asset to others. But I also am recalling an episode I did with Karen Shulman, one of our team members here at Real Good Ventures, and we called it Bosshole or Tormentor. And there's Bossholes, we talk about. Tormentor, nobody comes in trying to torment others. But even when you have somebody who makes your life difficult, the word mentor is still in the word tormentor. What can I draw from this person? What can I learn? I'll put that one in the show notes. But that's such a great perspective. Even though you had bad bosses and everybody does you still were able to draw something from them that influenced who you are today.
DD: Yeah, and I absolutely believe that the key to managing a difficult relationship with your boss is managing yourself. And I have, you know, I've had many conversations with people that I've mentored, or even I have two 20-something daughters who are fairly new in their careers, and I have this. In fact, I had this conversation this morning with my oldest about controlling her own reaction to her boss, who was having a difficult day and taking it out, perhaps inappropriately, on her team. And you know, managing my daughter for her to manage her reaction to it and that's what I've grown to appreciate is that managing me is my job and when I manage me well, then the people around me are able to operate at their fullest. And I think that's you know, as leaders, you're almost you're in the fishbowl, right Like everyone's watching you, watching your reaction to things, the words that you use, the you know if you're frustrated or angry they're going to sense that and and managing your emotions. And let's face it, I am a maverick, I'm also a redhead.
So it's been a lifelong journey, learning to manage myself. It's probably the most important part of leadership is managing your own reactions to things, and my team has ongoing jokes you know little phrases that I use, but that they know means Dorrie's not happy. Like I can't help but wonder, and then I go into my spiel about what we might've done differently or but, but I do it in a way that I think keeps the door open for communication and for them to provide me things that maybe I don't want to hear, whereas if you react in an angry way or blaming which I've experienced many times it shuts people down and then you don't get anything out of that conversation. And so making sure that you manage your reaction so that you can keep the lines of communication open, keep your staff coming to you even with the bad news is really, really important.
SB: Can I ask Dorrie, what has contributed to you know, you being able to identify, you call them triggers. You know managing yourself is just knowing what your triggers are and not getting all caught up and reactive in that stuff. What kind of things have led to deeper awareness about those triggers?
DD: Well, interestingly, when I was moving into a more C-suite role, I had an opportunity to engage with the executive coach, and I'll tell you, I think that is enormously important for leaders. First of all, it's the only person that you can be really truly vulnerable with, like, you can't do that with your boss, you can't do that, sometimes, with peers, and you know your family and friends do not understand, and, and so having a lead, having a coach that can help you reflect on, well, let's figure out why you reacted that way and let's work through that. And so I think that's one key thing. The other two things that I would mention is I've done all the personality tests. I've done DISC, Berkman, Myers-Briggs, and now we use Predictive Index, and all of those things have told me a little bit more about myself and and I think you know, and the truth is they're very similar in saying this is, these are the things that that trigger you, these are the things that make you tick, these are the things that if you had to sit down and do you would drive you insane. You know, and just yeah, it is what it is. And so then, how do I manage the work around me to to make sure that I don't set those triggers off, at least not routinely.
And then the third thing is just reading. I'm an avid reader and I try to read a business book and and what I call "chick lit, because I like a lot of junk literature too. I try to read one of each of those every month and some books I reread because they're relevant at the time. But, yeah, there's so many great books out there that just have been really insightful about leaders and how you know, a leader that manages their emotions can be tremendously successful and leaders who can't are limited. Those have been my three biggest, I think, ways that I've learned to accomplish that.
JB: Just out of curiosity, if there were one or two titles that you would say, "hey, everybody out there listening, these are two must-reads." On the business side, Well, if you want to do the other literature, that's fine too, but on the business side, what could you say right now? Hey, this is transformative
DD: Actually, in my notes of things I thought I wanted to talk about, I wrote down a few actually.
I'm a big fan of Lencioni, so I've read all of Lencioni's books, particularly the ones that appeal to me most are "The Advantage and The Five Dysfunctions of the Team. I think those are really excellent books. I love the book Leaders Eat Last, which is a Simon Sinek, and I love him too, and I've read all of his books. And he also has "Start With Why, which is, I think, very powerful, and if people understand the why, they're more likely to follow you or go with your direction. I've also read some funny ones, like the no a-hole rule.
I won't say the word, but there is that book out there. That's great. And then I always recommend this book to people that are going through leadership transitions, which is called "The first 90 days, and it was kind of like a roadmap book that I used when I became the CEO to structure how I was going to learn about the organization, address the emergent needs that they had and then be more strategic about the longer term things that I wanted to address. And you know, oftentimes leaders come in and they just start. You know making massive changes very rapidly. Leaders come in and they just start. You know making massive changes very rapidly and organizations can't sustain them, and they also. You may be making decisions that you don't fully understand.
Yet and and so it was. I found that book to be tremendously helpful and I give that book to people that are moving into a director role or an executive role and it is written for a CEO, but it has application to each time you're moving in leadership how you might go about listening and learning before you take action.
JB: Well, that's great.
DD: So those are some of my highlights.
JB: That's great. Thank you. I'm going to share a book that I love. Same sort of thing and it's entitled, "Any company that wants to get better call real good ventures. It's awesome.
DD: I should also say that now I have podcasts, which are also tremendously helpful, and ones like yours that are, you know, less than 30 minutes and I can get done while I'm walking my dog every night and and those have been very, very helpful. In more recent years, when I was first in leadership, that didn't exist, but I listened to a lot of podcasts too, and I think those are helpful. In some of them are you know, I like to listen to documentary type podcasts about things that I probably don't need to file away in my memory, and then and then there there's leadership and educational ones too, and I found that helpful.
SB: I think our listeners should know, Dorrie, that you, you know, you put into practice what you learn and you know what you talk about. You about, like the Lencioni books, you've spent years creating stability and good health organizational health by deploying his methodologies. So it's not just hey, I read this great book, you actually put it to work, which I think says a lot about you. I was just thinking, hey, you do such a good job, what is it that sustains you? So, are there any practices? Leaders seem to be frenetic and challenged, and there still continues to be an incredible challenge for managers and leaders. But what are some of the things maybe you do, knowing this, this insight you have about yourself working to manage your emotions? Just the practices, maybe the daily things that you do to help yourself be ready for these challenges.
DD: This is, you know, a lesson that I learned when I transitioned to Michigan. When I first came here, I was eating breakfast, lunch and dinner at work. Those were very long days and and in part because I had a lot to learn and and was spending a lot of my time just reading and trying to understand the organization better. But I got quickly, got to a point where it was, it was not sustainable and I was starting to really feel it and actually physically see it. I gained weight, I was exhausted, I was mentally exhausted, and so I really took a hard look at that and I now make a practice like I leave the office every day by six o'clock, with the exception of, you know, nights that I have dinners with people or board meetings and things. Those are few and far between and and I make a habit. I go home and you know my son's in college now and, but when he was in high school, you know we were eating dinner together or I was going to basketball games or football games and prioritizing those things and that really gives me balance, you know it's.
I think I mentioned my dog. You know my dog has to be walked. She cannot be kenneled for eight, you know 10 straight hours, and so running home at lunchtime or making sure that I'm there in the evening to walk her, I think that's that's another challenge that leaders that I've worked with that don't meet their own emotional and physical needs cannot bring their best self to work and under any circumstances. And and so you know those are, those are very important. I tried. I take my. I don't take extensive vacations, but you know those are very important. I don't take extensive vacations, but I try to practice what I preach about not checking emails.
DD: I do not email people after hours. I learned how to delay send if I decide to do a little email work on my own, but not bother people when it's after hours, unless it's an emergency and in our field we have emergencies right. There are things that come up that all hands are on deck and we need to get on a call and it's Saturday night and I am the first to make myself available for those. But there's also things that can be dealt with during regular business hours, and understanding the difference is key, and I've worked for leaders who did not understand the difference and you just felt like you were, you know, ready to jump out and attend to a fire every minute of every day, all day long, and it's just not. It's not healthy.
And I also, you know, when I was raising my children and working in this field, it was difficult, you know. I I look back on it and I mean there were times where we were like exchanging children in parking lots because I had to go do a case, and it was difficult. And one of the things I'm proudest of is that we've created the job is not such that you can't do it and have a family, and that comes with balance. I kind of hate that phrase work-life balance because the truth is it's very difficult to strike. They're always competing against each other. But what you choose to prioritize at that moment needs your full focus. And if I want to be at my son's basketball game, I schedule around it and I commit to it. And there are times where I had to go to a national meeting and I wasn't there. So in the times that I could be there and made the priority to be there, I was there.
SB: That's so awesome. I know we also talked about and we're kind of wrapping up on our time here but you indicated another key to successful leadership is to not be threatened by the powerhouses around you, which, by the way, good leaders hire powerhouse people around them. As we head into the homestretch here, can you say a few thoughts on that?
DD: Yeah, I think one of the challenges, especially when you get to the C-suite, is you do know a lot and you have a lot to contribute, but the truth is you don't know it all and it's very hard for people who climb to that level to admit that and to surround themselves with people who complement their, their, their weaknesses or their skills and let them do that and let them do that, and that's that doesn't come easily for me.
I gotta tell you, I, I it's a daily practice for me to remind myself to not feel threatened, you know, and I'll feel it like in my gut and and I it's.
It's definitely something I have to practice because I want to be the expert and I want to be seen as the expert, but I'm not of every single thing. I have a lot to contribute, but I'm not of everything. And so, making sure that I work with my CFO on all the finance stuff because that's not my wheelhouse and and I know enough to ask the questions and understand the statements and all those things, but you know, getting our cost report completed is not my thing, but oftentimes I think leaders surround themselves with really good people and then don't let them do their job, don't let them shine, don't give them the opportunity to shine, the credit, solve problems or or create solutions, and then they leave. You know they don't want to work for somebody who doesn't let them be their best self and so making sure that you know I have a really great leadership team. I'm very, very thankful for them.
And the truth is we're a team. We run this organization as a team. I might sit as the CEO, but it's very much a team and that's part of the Lencioni practice is building that strong leadership team and then letting people lead.
SB: Yeah, and I can attest to that firsthand because I've watched them in action. I've watched all of you in action. I think the true takeaway today is the key is managing me, you know, and your attitude, the way you chose to look at maybe not so effective bosses in a compassionate way versus a victim way, that's managing you. There's just a lot of gold in here, Dorrie. I knew there would be. That's why we wanted to get you on the podcast, because we got to let people hear this great stuff, my pleasure.
JB: Dorrie, it was great. I've been looking forward to this. When Sara said you're going to be on here, I just knew it'd be awesome and our listeners will love it. So thank you so much.
SB: Keep up the great work, Dorrie. That's a wrap. We'll see you next time on the Bosshole Chronicles.
JB: We'd like to thank our guests today on the Bosshole Chronicles and if you have a Bosshole Chronicles story of your own, please email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles.com. Once again, mystory@thebossholechronicles.com, we'll see you again soon.