Melissa Llarena - Reshaping Success for Mom Entrepreneurs
Meet Melissa Llarena! Another great connection I made at PodFest 2024 with her own Bosshole® experiences that have shaped a really unique message and methodology for Mom Entrepreneurs. This is a special episode for all our working moms out there in The Bosshole® Transformation Nation!
Links and Resources from the Episode:
Click here for Melissa's book "Fertile Imagination - Every Mom's Superpower"
Click here to check out the Unimaginable Wellness podcast
Click here for Melissa's website
Click here for Melissa's LinkedIn profile
Click here for Melissa's free webinar Mom Mogul Makeover
Click here to schedule a free 30-minute Business Goal Progress Analysis & Course Correct session
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The Bosshole® Chronicles
“Melissa Llarena - Reshaping Success for Mom Entrepreneurs’”
Original Publish Date: 4/9/2024.
Host: John Broer
John Broer: Welcome back to the Bosshole Chronicles everyone. This is your host, John Broer. Nice to have you here this week. Today you're going to get a chance to meet another amazing person I met at PodFest 2024 and a fellow podcaster, Melissa Llarena. I was really intrigued by her work as a speaker, consultant, author and, specifically, her passion for helping mom entrepreneurs. She recently published a book entitled "Fertile Imagination a guide for stretching every mom's superpower for maximum impact. But her message and her methodologies go far beyond that. But what intrigued me were her own Bosshole experiences and how they helped to shape the world that she is helping to inform when it comes to entrepreneurs, founders and creators who are moms. So let's jump in and meet Melissa Llarena.
The Bosshole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, the talent optimization firm, helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode. Sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode. Well, Melissa, welcome to the Bosshole Chronicles. It is so good to have you here.
Melissa Llarena: I am so excited that someone had the courage to call this the Bosshole Chronicles. I just had to mention that. Thank you, John. I love being here with a fellow podcaster. This is going to be a really great conversation.
JB: Yeah, I agree, and our listeners know from the intro that you and I met at PodFest this year. Great conference, great community of fellow podcasters. And when you and I started talking and I started learning more about your work and your work- it's not your work, it's really your mission and I thought, oh my gosh, the Bosshole Transformation Nation needs to hear from Melissa and we're going to hear about your book. And, by the way, everybody go into the show notes. All of the links that you will want from Melissa, including to the book and her current activities, will be there. So go there, but take us back a little bit, if you will. Melissa, that what really? A little bit more about your journey that brought you to this place of really helping working moms, or moms, if you will, that have this amazing capacity for the work world realize that. So just walk us through that a little bit.
ML: Thank you. So I would say my journey started very, very early in the sense that, unlike maybe a lot of individuals, I mean I saw corporate cubicles when I was 17. I worked for Chase Manhattan Bank at the time and I was exposed to so many working moms and, as you might recall in your own career journey you know those early days were very, very open. We see possibilities in the world of work and corporations as places that give you a lifestyle that you can feel proud of and excited about. And I noticed something different, different. So one boss, for example, she had a heck of a commute. I don't know if it was like an hour and a half. Again, this was like a very long time ago right.
So pre-hybrid. And I remember her just saying, you know, constantly like I really wish I could be with my one daughter, I really wish I could work from home, like is it really important for me to be in this office in Wall Street? And she was coming from upstate and it was interesting because I kind of felt like her life situation was making her a bit of a Bosshole.
JB: You know so think about that.
ML: You know that was my first sort of exposure to, "huh. This is what happens when a working mom feels that inner conflict and when maybe she's doing something that's not really in her heart, such as budgeting for a fortune 500 organization. So that was like the impetus for me, just really exploring almost the psyche of a lot of the people around me. And again, I was very, very young when I began. Years later it became my turn and so I remember I had just finished business school.
I went to the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth. I got my MBA and I remember going for my first job, but I had already been about six years married at the time and so the back of my mind I was like I want to start a family, but I just got this MBA right, so it's an investment. So, okay, how can I get an ROI on that investment? And when I was working on the agency side again, this was quite some time ago, about 2010. If you could imagine, I remember being pregnant, being huge, and I remember someone saying under their breath wow, she's going to burst right. Super insensitive, but a bit of a Bosshole thing to say.
JB: Yeah, yeah, it's like going back to Mad Men that era, although it was 2010.
ML: Yeah, so that was the interesting bit for me. I was like, okay, first child, big belly, small frame, but on agency hours. So working life at an ad agency in downtown Brooklyn is very, very ruthless. You have to be present when the client calls you and make a note of that. I said when the client calls you, not shows up, because a lot of my clients were in different states. They were not in.
Brooklyn. So one would think that when I had my first-born and I went and I tried to get one day working from home, one would think that that would be viable, but it wasn't. I was declined and I actually gave my boss back then an entire spreadsheet about ways that they could communicate with me on that one single Friday every week because I wanted to be with my son after being a brand new mom, and so I'm sure a lot of working moms out there they understand we just change, our priorities change. And that moment, that experience, was when I decided to start my own career coaching practice.
JB: Okay.
ML: For me it was like okay, I have these skills, I have the ability to sell myself because I have been doing so since 17. How can I put them into practice in a way that's going to fulfill me and help me be an actual mom to? My child instead of working on marketing campaigns for children products, by the way, which felt for me kind of ironic.
JB: Oh, no kidding, that is ironic, okay. Okay, isn't it yeah?
ML: So that was 2011. I returned to the agency on the day back from mat leave, which we all know you only get two weeks. The rest I had to earn in terms of time off. And I returned and I just told my boss, and they weren't Bossholes, they were just unaware of the reality of parenting. But I told my boss someone else needs me more than you need me here and, by the way, I got props for that note he was like wow, that was the best resignation email I've ever gotten in my life.
JB: Good for you, good for you, yeah.
ML: One day of trying to figure out the logistics of getting my son to my mother-in-law's, after a failed attempt of securing childcare, which fell apart for me. Before I returned back one day of that, logistics was what got me out of the workforce from a conventional perspective, so launched the practice. I was focused on helping people get into corporations, really helping marketing executives land jobs.
So I was a career coach 12 years later. So it has been some time in the saddle. 12 years later, I was like something doesn't feel right. Okay, something didn't feel right to me. I was noticing, from a corporation perspective, a lot of working moms really suffering from career trauma, and I wrote that in my book, which I'll get to that point in a moment. But, I also saw a lot of moms not finding fulfillment in corporations. Not that that's where we should get our fulfillment cup filled, but that's one way to feel fulfilled. Absolutely.
JB: Oh, absolutely yeah.
ML: Yeah, and then the other side of it is that it just felt out of alignment. I had been out of corporations for 12 years. I was now a mom entrepreneur, so having been in the space where I'm helping people sell themselves and ideally not work for a Bosshole, and.
I would say there's an art of figuring out who is and who isn't ahead of time. It was really interesting because then I was like I need a pivot, I need to feel more aligned, and that's when I decided to write my book "Fertile Imagination. And in my book it's so entrepreneur heavy that I just got excited about that and for me it was like okay, this idea of a boss hole. It's like yes, in corporations a lot of boss holes get people to like quit or quiet, quit or whatever. But it's also a mindset, John.
And so that's where I am today. It's interesting because you might be your own Bosshole and not even know it, and there's something that needs to happen that's pretty proactive for you to start being a better boss to yourself, even on the other side, which is where I am now coaching entrepreneurial moms in terms of having that huge vision and leveraging their imagination to set it into action.
JB: Let's unpack that a little bit more, because we say at Real Good Ventures, we say nobody is born to be a Bosshole, and that's true. But I think, Melissa, you bring up a really interesting point. It's a mindset - how does a entrepreneurial mom or a mom entrepreneur I love that term, by the way either one, how does she avoid being her own Bosshole or drifting into the Bosshole Zone, knowing that she may have come from an environment that really encouraged that? And a lot of organizations do. How does she do that?
ML: It's interesting. So in my book I actually have a chapter featuring a hospitality executive, and so Jo Dodd shares her story where, after I think it was like 18 years or so climbing the ladder, she just felt constantly like under the gun, right, to like achieve or exceed KPIs, and obviously goals just get more ambitious and harder to achieve the higher up you go. And what was interesting for her was the pandemic was a bit of a blessing, as it was for a lot of moms who left corporations. It was like that nudge that we needed, or they needed, to finally do what they had been thinking to do for decades. And so in the book for imagination I go on to say that step one is once you're out, it's really a recognition of, "okay, wait a minute, how hard am I forcing myself to work in my own business? Who's the bosshole now?
And that's what came up in my interview with Jo on my podcast on imaginable wellness. She said that she didn't realize that, as an entrepreneur, she was still holding herself to the same standards as a Fortune 500 organization with thousands of employees and all these resources, and her calendar was more booked than ever. We create work for ourselves, and that's part of being your own Bosshole. It's kind of like, "wait a minute, are you your own worst boss? Like we need to really think about this.
JB: That is a great perspective. It is. I've been an entrepreneur, I've worked for corporations, I've spent most of my time in my own businesses, which I prefer, but it's one of those things where sometimes, when people start a business, they either can't get to it or they can't get away from it. And yours this case for Jo was she was just burying herself in her own work and being her own worst enemy, or her own worst Bosshole version, if you will. That's really interesting. I could see that happening, because what I think is unfair and you check me on this, Melissa my wife had worked all her life was a working mom.
After our first son was born and when she was expecting our second son, we had a conversation. She said I'd really like to be a stay-at-home mom and I said awesome. I think that's amazing. By the way, I think it's harder work. I probably will get some pushback on that. I think being a mom is incredibly challenging. I can't speak to that because I'm a dad, but I think there's a pressure that stay-at-home moms or working moms put on themselves that it's like well, if I have to put this amount of effort in the office, I have to magnify that as a mom, because somehow I have to be more in both worlds. I just think that's unfair. Check me on that. Am I right, am I wrong? Is it a good perspective or is it a typical male perspective? I don't know.
ML: Here's where I net out on that. So a lot of the world talks about ROI right, and that's totally acceptable in business world, business language, and what I propose to my clients is this whole idea of M-R-O-I, so the M is really for me, a mom's ROI is different than someone that doesn't have children. I'll give you an example. So let's just imagine that I'm able to produce a lot during the beginning of the school year when my kids are in school, but then I know that spring break is coming and I'm going to be the one taking care of them exclusively. So what do I do and how do I squeeze the most value out of that time that they're still in school? And for me, that's where I start thinking about things from a M equals ROI kind of perspective.
So, I'm thinking okay, not only do I have to squeeze the value out of this time, but then also I have to overcompensate for the time away from my children. So, whatever it is that I'm doing, it better matter. Sometimes it's good because it makes you more courageous, because if you show up to a networking event, as an example, and you know that you had to get child care or that the nighttime routine is not going to go as planned, if the dad took the lead then you're going to really try to squeeze the juice out of the moment and the experience, but the pressure is what leads to burnout.
It's kind of like okay. I just paid for childcare. I just went out there and I was pitching myself and I didn't get the sale and it's like you're going to go and bust your petunias until you get your money back for not only the services and products you deliver but also the child care you had to pay for and also cover the whole mom guilt that you may have felt for not being with your child that evening. So, there's this added pressure that's not just black and white spreadsheet, but it's also emotional as well.
JB: With all of that, all of those different facets you mentioned. This is really pointing to the work you're doing currently, right? Tell our listeners a little bit more about the current work and thank you for that. I think this context is amazing and very helpful, but you're starting to create cohorts, if you will, of mom entrepreneurs and the like. Tell us a little bit more about that.
ML: I'm so excited about that. So what I'm doing is bringing the concepts from my book "Fertile Imagination to life, and so I have a nine-week group coaching program where the idea is to help visionary mom entrepreneurs. So there's a difference that I just want to make clear. Visionary mom entrepreneurs so there's a difference that I just want to make clear. Some moms they're in entrepreneurship and they have businesses more because they want to do something to keep their skills sharp, not so much to build an empire or something that they can feel like incredibly proud of and hand over to their kids. For example, I right now, at my life stage because my kids are in school I really wanna be around these big thinkers, visionary mom entrepreneurs, who are all in but don't want to die on their way to making their vision a reality.
And what I mean by that is we wanna bubble wrap our mental health, which is a lot of what I talk about on my own podcast. All this to say the work that I do. It's really about optimizing a mom's time. So let's imagine that you have a visionary mom, entrepreneur, who has a really big vision, but she has a child and she had a career pause before that. How can we not feel left behind or like we have? We were penalized for choosing our family at a certain stage.
This is my answer to that? My answer is about hyper-networking, basically, which is what I did to stay in the game. So in my book photo imagination, there are really big names that I hyper-networked with so that I was able to boost my own credibility, stay in the game, be relevant, which that's a challenge. A lot of moms, who even leave, feel they don't feel relevant, and I was also able to garner the insights of people that were light years ahead of me. So, as a mom, if I have to pause, as an example, during spring break to care for my child, which is my choice, other moms have full support systems, right, but for me, I haven't chosen that path yet.
Trust me, I'm on the brink, but for moms that are choosing to mother in my way. You need those mentors that are not just like you, just guessing our way through entrepreneurship, but people that are like way ahead and can pull you up, because maybe you have to go at entrepreneurship a little more slowly or in different phases that align with motherhood, because sometimes your kids need you a lot and sometimes they need you less.
So why not include that in our business plans and play up to the idea that other people want to help moms? So I have found what is harder is for moms to ask for this kind of help, like we'll ask for help when it comes to our kids, but somehow it's like we don't ask for help for our own ambitions and dreams, and I want to change the conversation. We need a village for both things and you're fully justified in seeking that sort of support.
JB: Yeah, that reminds me a couple of weeks ago when we just talked, had a little preliminary conversation about the moms that feel trapped that they may be working for an organization that actually is quite understanding and flexible and appreciates that a working mom has duties outside of the office and they honor that, but that sometimes feels like a little bit of a trap to me.
It almost sounds, Melissa, like if a mom entrepreneur is not careful she can see things as a trap and you're trying to say there's so many ways to break away from that, whether you're still working in an organization, whether you're starting your own business and as a parent, you know that there are different seasons of parenting, when they're super little, totally different than when they're in middle school or they're in high school and you have more freedom. It sounds to me like you are really wanting to help these moms avoid the pitfalls wherever they may be, wherever they may find themselves, but also really say okay, there is no reason that you can't be fulfilled in both worlds, and being a mom and being able to bring forward your expertise, your, your skills, even your passions to a degree, you're kind of helping to break that old mindset to a degree.
ML: Exactly that, and in the book I call it like a cultural glass ceiling. A lot of us, when we're born and raised by a myriad of different moms or grandmothers or aunts and all of that, get a sensation that playing this particular role of a mom has to look a certain way.
JB: Right.
ML: And so then we trap ourselves by basically saying, okay, I'm going to have those color coordinated family photo shoot Christmas cards every single year. Right, no joke, yeah, I mean those are the stakes right now, as far as I see them, like things that we hold ourselves up to that maybe we never really wanted to be honest, or I have to get a house. Meanwhile, secretly, you wish you lived in Spain, in a cute European town like me. It's really interesting and, I think, at the same time, from a work fulfillment perspective, you get to choose, and I feel like a lot of the working moms, especially early in my career coaching career they worked for organizations, they had bosses and if a boss gave them the opportunity to like skip a meeting to go pick up their child in the middle of the day, they felt like they owed them a kidney.
JB: It was that bad.
ML: And here's the thing. If I on this side heard that on multiple occasions, then there's a lot of people that are not oss holes right and you owe it to yourself to understand what are your options.
And so something else that I realized was that in a lot of organizations, when it comes to like the habits and behaviors of people in the organizations, it's almost like you only talk to people that are like either your peers or in your business unit or your area of expertise, your function.
But what I'm saying especially now, because I truly believe that a company might be asking for specialists, but they really want generalists, because that's what they end up needing I truly believe that, at least for a working mom, she could now really make that effort of understanding what her options are, even within an organization, by networking using the internet, just online zoom coffee chats with people that are in finance or in marketing, and I think that's also the key to success as an entrepreneur.
So, as an entrepreneur, again kind of thinking to yourself how can I write the rules so that I can win the game? Basically, I think what it takes is okay, like I have limited time as a mom and as an entrepreneur. So how can I find people that are willing to help me, that can help me bend time in my favor, because this is when I have to work. I'm not going to be able to pick up the phone spring break and have the same sort of conversations, and I think understanding that we have options is like step one. Step two is just exposing ourselves to other people who are already experiencing those options and, I think, fearing that you're going to encounter a boss hole. Yeah, you're going to encounter some boss holes, but at the end of the day, it's kind of like at least you'll be able to like, smell them as they come your way, the more people, you experience right.
JB: Right, right, well, and you said I mean, and that kind of is in the whole realm of Bosshole elimination and making sure you're not your own boss hole. You said there are some cues of when you might be encountering a Bosshole. We talk about that all the time. What do you mean by that, Melissa? Just real quick, as we start to think about wrapping up.
ML: So I'm thinking about one Bosshole that I reported to and so this was a cue. For example, you know, working in the advertising space, like being a salesperson, like that's essential. I mean sales, honestly, would be the one skill that would teach my kids in life. But this one person, a super sales-y, had the gift of gab and I would say you could sniff that this person was going to be a little bit tough to work for by just observing sort of like what promises were being made to clients and then the way that the person would divide the work amongst the team, like it was obvious that the person had preferences and political sort of underlying things going on there.
JB: Playing favorites? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
ML: And I remember at one point I stood up to one of the guys that basically my Bosshole was having me do this one guy's work and I wasn't getting his paycheck. But I had to stand up for myself you know, I remember having that conversation with him in a hallway and I was like, hey, I know what's happening here.
JB: Right.
ML: I was a bit rough because it felt rough in the moment and he didn't like that. I stood up for myself, but now I can appreciate the fact that, okay, being a salesperson, just be aware of like how people sell. Like, as an example, like super tactical. Are they like overselling something? Do they have the gift of gab? Might they be saying things that are not so truthful? The same things you're going to notice with the way that they kind of perform their work and talk to clients. They're not going to like convert into some angel on the inside. You know, like people tend to show you who they are, and so I think if we tune into our intuition, I know for a lot of women and working moms, like this is like a really real GPS of what's right or what's wrong. We really really tune into our intuition. During those initial interview conversations or when we're networking and meeting with a lot of people, we can gauge who's going to be right or wrong for where we want to go.
JB: Yeah, that's so great. That is so great. Okay, remind everybody out there in the Bosshole Transformation Nation go into the show notes, check out and get Melissa's book "Fertile Imagination by the way, I'm just going to give the whole title A Guide for Stretching Every Mom's Superpower for Maximum Impact. So that's cool. And tell us about the podcast again and how people can find that and how often it drops.
ML: Every Tuesday on Imaginable Wellness, and it's really talking to moms that have this really huge vision for their entrepreneurial adventure and what's cool is it's available everywhere Bosshole will be, for the most part right.
JB: That's right, on all major podcast platforms.
ML: That's right, exactly so if you're listening to this just like head on over to Unimaginable Wellness, click, follow. If it's iTunes and I'll be there as far as the book, just go to fertileideas.com. And if you are contemplating becoming an entrepreneur, I just want to invite you, members of the Bosshole Nation, to reach out to me, schedule time with me. I do offer free sessions, so melissallarena.com forward slash sessions is just another URL, but you could find the same information on fertileideascom. And let me know what it is that you're thinking, because I think there's options outside of organizations for working moms that you might not even realize are just very available to you.
JB: Oh, I think that's great and all those links will be in the show notes. Make sure you take Melissa up on that invitation. And this is great, Melissa, I'm so glad we had a chance to meet at PodFest. This was wonderful. And why don't we check in? Maybe in about, I don't know this time next year we'll see how things are going and how your new program is growing and you can give us an update on that. How does that sound?
ML: Amazing. Thank you so much, John, for the opportunity.
JB: Great to have you, Melissa, and we will see you all next time on the Bosshole Chronicles.
We'd like to thank our guests today on the Bosshole Chronicles and if you have a Bosshole Chronicles story of your own, please email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles.com. Once again, mystory@thebossholechronicles.com. Once again, mystory@thebossholechroniclescom. We'll see you again soon.